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31 January 2009 @ 12:08 am
Teresa Nielsen Hayden has lost her damn mind  
She's now muttering darkly in her journal about manipulators, and how it's all much deeper and darker than we think, which she will apparently reveal with her cache of ip addresses! No, people aren't pissed because she and her friends have behaved abominably, it's a *plot* against her.

I've got news for you, madam.

No one made Emma Bull stomp into the middle of Ebear's post and declare that anyone who saw unpleasant racial connotations in Blood and Iron were simply not intelligent and intellectual enough to get how brilliant Bear was.

No one made medievalist call Avalon's Willow an orc.

No one made mac_stone accuse people who disagreed with her of being bullying child abusers.

No one made Patrick run into the middle of the conversation and say 'yeah, those people are so dumb! and it's not about race!' No one made him sulk and delete his journal when someone called him out on it.

No one made you call the PoCs and others involved 'non-people' and 'dirty loudmouthed sluts'. No one made you threaten writers, nor made you play innocent about it later.

It's your own damn words that made my former respect for you turn to contempt.

Are you actually trying to pull the 'outside agitators are riling up our peaceful negro population' card? JESUS CHRIST.
PROBE UNIVERSE: atlantis: snake laying a man-trapliviapenn on January 31st, 2009 08:34 am (UTC)

Oh, and also: No one made Emma Bull stomp into the middle of Ebear's post and declare that anyone who saw unpleasant racial connotations in Blood and Iron were simply not intelligent and intellectual enough to get how brilliant Bear was... after Elizabeth Bear had already publically stated that she agreed with the substance of the post criticising her.

I think this exchange really just says everything. So incredibly casual and dismissive. "Nah!" (And what part is she saying "nah" to, really? I mean, obviously she's saying "nah, my post wasn't unfair," but is she also seriously saying "nah, my post wasn't offputting to good-hearted people?" She just somehow knows and can state with such certainty that *no* good-hearted people would be put off by her now-flocked post? I mean, the *hell*?
Lauratavella on January 31st, 2009 04:42 pm (UTC)
From the tone of her other replies, I suspect she denies the right of the poster to make that assertion at all; that is, she doesn't think zdashamber is sincere. She appears to be convinced that the criticism of her is the result of one or more trolls assuming different identities. People that she knows personally, such as ktempest and nojojojo, well they have just been manipulated by this troll.

Edited at 2009-01-31 04:46 pm (UTC)
Madeline the Edifyingzdashamber on January 31st, 2009 08:20 pm (UTC)
I got the impression that she was just doing the denial blow-off of the comment, and for myself, I'm not yet in the category of "people who disagree with her = trolls"... I'm guessing that nojojojo is off her Christmas Card list, so doesn't qualify as a goodhearted person anymore.

I'd been under the impression that the first post was a "I hurt!" where one participant in a flame war cries uncle, and the rest was woundlicking in her cave... But saying that Stross's SO's calling someone a cunt was worthy of having roses heaped at her feet? Yeah no. She's still in the war and hasn't realized she's lost.
PROBE UNIVERSEliviapenn on February 1st, 2009 02:16 am (UTC)

I think you're right; she seems to think anyone who is critical of her at this point is a sockpuppet troll.

I really, really wonder if anyone has pointed out to her yet that it's possible to look at LJ profiles and see how long any given journal has existed, and how active it's been, etc., or if that would even matter to her insta-judgement of people as trolls.
fairestcat on February 2nd, 2009 01:57 am (UTC)
I know at least one person has.
K-Box in the Boxbox_in_the_box on January 31st, 2009 08:54 am (UTC)
It's not the first time, and it won't be the last time, but I am ashamed to be white in this moment.
Lauratavella on January 31st, 2009 04:54 pm (UTC)
I'm not ashamed, but good god has the last few days been a truly embarrassing display of wallowing in privilege, intellectual credential waving in the absence of actual skilled writing to support your points, and blindly supporting your friends even when they are saying stupid and cruel things.
Krisquiet000001 on January 31st, 2009 11:02 am (UTC)
Her reaction (in the now-missing post) did seem to be, well. Weird.

Like "have you perhaps missed a dose of medication?" level weird.

Not that I really know her, but still. Weird.
Lauratavella on January 31st, 2009 05:04 pm (UTC)
The post on its own was poisonous, but could have been the result of a single temper fit. The repeated denial of anything nasty about it, the paranoid world view dominating subsequent posts and comments... yeah, it's strange as well as vile.
Krisquiet000001 on January 31st, 2009 10:18 pm (UTC)
I haven't read all of the comment threads, but some of her comments have been rather non-sensical, yes.

I mean, I read one thing where she was talking about PNH's career and professional reputation suffering, and yet she doesn't seem to be aware at all of what her behavior may do to her own reputation- she's hardly behaving in a professional fashion.
kitmizkit on January 31st, 2009 11:45 am (UTC)
...I am aware, in a vague way, that there has been a Kerfuffle Of Some Sort.

I am *really really glad* now that I am well outside of it and have no idea of the substance. Oi.
Lauratavella on January 31st, 2009 05:11 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure that ignorance is the best thing in this case; while I have been made unhappy by much that has been revealed, I also feel considerably more educated, both in the nature of certain people and because of some brilliant analysis that has been going on.

However, as a published writer, I suspect you are indeed well, well out of it, given Consequences have been promised.
Janne: trek garak wouldn'tjanne on January 31st, 2009 07:15 pm (UTC)
Staying out is probably for the best -- I tried to comment once or twice, but I don't think it's humanly possible to have an opinion in the current LJ drama without pouring gasoline on fire one way or the other O.o.
saphira112: Cassian is Not Pleasedsaphira112 on January 31st, 2009 06:32 pm (UTC)
I have no idea what to feel right now O_o
Lauratavella on February 2nd, 2009 07:19 pm (UTC)
It's pretty horrifying.
saphira112: Cassian is Not Pleasedsaphira112 on February 3rd, 2009 12:50 am (UTC)
Indeed it is... wow...
(Deleted comment)
Lauratavella on February 4th, 2009 01:23 am (UTC)
I'm pretty quiet most of the time, but I was just so boggled at tnh that I had to post. Glad to have you!
grasping your proteomesarahq on February 1st, 2009 09:14 pm (UTC)
You've got to have some sort of ego to think this is All About You.

In the long, long, long list of ignorance to boggle at, I'm now boggling at her claim that anyone who conducts an online conversation without using her/his full legal name is a troll. Or a sockpuppet of the ubertroll.